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Permalink Reply by George Phiniotis on April 6, 2011 at 12:38am

From what I have seen the acids are out of this world on the coast anyway. 16 g/l being common, when you ask about flavour...cabernet foch is the preier blattner red. Foch's foxy flavours and potent colour go hand in hand. Cabernet foch is a novelty but there are many more reliable varieties out there. And far better wines to be made.

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Permalink Reply by Charles Herrold on April 6, 2011 at 2:00pm

Paul Troop from Saltspring is the official propigator of the "Blattner" varieties. I've tasted a couple of his whites that show

some promise. Vern Siemens has been growing some in Abbotsford, as well. They tend to ripen very early and aren't

prone to mildew, so they can work on the coast and Island. As the acids typically run on the high side, they tend to taste

the most balanced with a touch of RS.

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Permalink Reply by Paul Troop on April 13, 2011 at 7:39pm

I agree with you on the name. Valentin Blattner himself is not overly enthused about marketing his work under his name, but what do you do? Some of the famous breeders that have made significant contributions to the industry have had names like Kuhlmann, Zweigelt, Courdec, Seibel . . . they are just names. If you want to look at unfortunate grape names we could look at Gewurztraminer, Zweigel (again) Siegerrebe ...

Now that some of the grapes are starting to gain a good reputation and the wines getting good reviews and winning awards, perhaps it is time to think about how to describe them. To date I have named Cabernet Libre, Epicure, Labelle (thanks to Carol at Dragonfly Hill Vineyard) and Valentin himself attached the name Cab Foch to the oldest of his crosses in BC (that one coming courtesy of Vern Rose from House of Rose) - although I don't think he ever thought it would attract attention.

In Europe Valentin's grapes are doing well, especially Cabernet Blanc,  Cabernet 26-4 and his darling 32-7.

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Permalink Reply by Paul Troop on April 13, 2011 at 8:35pm

George,

 

After making hundreds of batches from the 70 odd Blattner varieties I have (over the past 9 years), I can say that I have never seen anything like 16 gm of acid in any of those batches.  Actual acid ranges from under 6 to as high as 13 on Blattner grapes grown here on the BC Coast Islands. Of course the upper end of that range is predominantly in varieties not suited to the coast.

 

I’m not sure what you mean with the ‘Foxy’ comment. It is my understanding that ‘foxy’ is a term related to the presence of Methyl Anthranilate, an aroma compound often found in Labrusca varieties, and also in Pinot Noir  (http://www.ajevonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/46/3/392).

 

None of the Blattner varieties being grown here have either Labrusca or Pinot Noir as parents so I see no reason to think there would be any ‘foxy’ flavour. Perhaps you are referring to the anthocyanic notes that come with over extracted Foch or Leon Millot. These flavours are from the Riperia/Rupestris parentage of the Marechal Foch vine, certainly not from Labrusca

 

I would strongly disagree that Cab Foch is the premier Blattner red grape, there are quite a few other Blattner varieties that exhibit characters that are much more along ‘old world’ styles. Granted, theses are all mostly still numbered varieties.

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Paul Troop on April 13, 2011 at 8:48pm

I have made a great number of Blattner wines over the past 9 years. The genetic diversity in the collection of material of Valentin Blattner that I have is quite amazing.

 

What do they taste like? All over the map, some of the whites are huge tropical fruit bombs, some whites, austere subtle wines that would work well barrel fermented and lees aged . The reds range from light Sangiovese styles, some with hints of rose petal, some with huge blueberry flavours, others showing as dead ringers for Bordeaux blends. You can't peg these as one thing.

98% of the work on Valentin's varieties has been done on the coast of BC. What is needed is a properly run trial in the OK. If the will, land, funding and legalities are in place, it could be done . . .

 

When you consider the ethical aspect of growing these grapes, if even a few were found that made a place in the OK, it could make a huge story and a great impact on the bottom line for growers and the environment.

 

Valentin's passion has been to create grapes that were both highly disease resistant that also made wines that gained acceptance in the marketplace. He has succeeded in both in Europe and here on the BC coast islands. For the record, I have grown 7 acres of his varieties on Salt Spring Island since 2003 and have only put two fungicide sprays on in that time - one as a result of a mildew outbreak in a vinifera grape (since removed) and one to control erineum mites.

 

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Permalink Reply by Roblin Cronkhite on April 16, 2011 at 4:03pm

Paul, Next time I'm down on the big island I'll pop over to see you to take a look at and sample your Cab Libre. Probably in late May-June.

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Permalink Reply by Vern Siemens on July 8, 2011 at 1:31pm

OK...I am way late in responding, ha ha....obviously I have not checked in for quite a while.

So yes I do a single bottling of the Cab Foche, and while it does sell, it is certainly not one of my favourites....makes a great pizza wine..period.  The Cab Libre is even more challenging and while you may be able to use it as a blender due to its pretty, deep colour, but as a varietal, probably not as the nose is one of cut hay or grass...not offensive but not offering much on the fruity side of things.

So while I certainly prefer the Blattner whites, I have not yet given up on the reds and will continue to experiment with ripeness levels, various barrel combinations, along with different crop yields and alcohol levels.  Currently I am experimenting with a couple of barrels of Blattner Cab Foche Port which seems quite interesting.

So as far as Mt Lehman Winery goes,  for me the jury is still out and I will continue to work and experiment with both the red and the white Blattners....of course that is on the coast and I have not tasted any of the Blattners grown in the warmer interior climate.

So if you are really curious, come by for a barrel tasting and make up your own mind...or you could just critisize my winemaking...ha ha!

 

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Permalink Reply by Paul Troop on July 8, 2011 at 10:25pm

Hey there Vern,

 

There are a lot of Blattner crosses, some have produced some pretty good wines in the Islands here. One got the top hybrid award at the All Canadians last year. Yes, the wines aren't the same as Pinot or Merlot, but then neither are Malbec or Petite Verdot. These are all different grapes that have taken a lot of time to master and with new varieties in new places we need time to understand how to grow and make wine from them. I've had a few excellent vintages from Cabernet Libre on the coast, some years are more challenging. 2005 was a good one as was 2009. I let the 2008 sit in barrel for almost close to 2 years and good things happened.

 

One winery on VI is releasing a blend of coastal Cabernet Libre and Oliver Merlot (50/50) now there's something different.

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Permalink Reply by George Phiniotis on July 9, 2011 at 8:36pm

I would love to see some new varieties in the interior, Niche wines account for such a small percentage of the market it's tough to get a winery owner and marketing to get on with the idea of creating something entirely new in a production scale. Test batches are great if you have the time to play with them, but most commercial wineries are too busy making their production wines to give a small batch the attention they require to create anything special. It would have to be a proven variety of grapes from somewhere with a similar growing period, more or less. Keep gathering data on these hybrids and maybe hope to see 5 acres of premium vineyard installation in the interior. Personally I would like to see Carmenere,Grenache and Mourvedre growing in some place like the N K'mip vineyard where it had a real chance and the required attention. There are a couple of trial size plantings around but unless your making at least 1,000 cases of a wine it's difficult to justify the costs involved.

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Permalink Reply by Roblin Cronkhite on July 10, 2011 at 8:42pm

Vern Siemens said:

OK...I am way late in responding, ha ha....obviously I have not checked in for quite a while.

So yes I do a single bottling of the Cab Foche, and while it does sell, it is certainly not one of my favourites....makes a great pizza wine..period.  The Cab Libre is even more challenging and while you may be able to use it as a blender due to its pretty, deep colour, but as a varietal, probably not as the nose is one of cut hay or grass...not offensive but not offering much on the fruity side of things.

So while I certainly prefer the Blattner whites, I have not yet given up on the reds and will continue to experiment with ripeness levels, various barrel combinations, along with different crop yields and alcohol levels.  Currently I am experimenting with a couple of barrels of Blattner Cab Foche Port which seems quite interesting.

So as far as Mt Lehman Winery goes,  for me the jury is still out and I will continue to work and experiment with both the red and the white Blattners....of course that is on the coast and I have not tasted any of the Blattners grown in the warmer interior climate.

So if you are really curious, come by for a barrel tasting and make up your own mind...or you could just critisize my winemaking...ha ha!

 

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Permalink Reply by Sarah Bertin on January 11, 2012 at 11:09am

David and Liz Avery of LOTUSLAND vineyards, Fraser Valley (organic & bio-dynamic) have just launched the first wine in the world using the 4 new Blattner disease resistant early maturing 'Cabernet' varietals. Spicey floral nose, nice berry and dried stone fruit front pallet, little soft yet mid pallet, long finish with soft tannins, easy drinking Bordeaux style wine with good acidity but without the biting tannins. As it is the first in the world I can't tell you how it will develop although it is 8 months, now 10 months, in the bottle and the mid pallet continues to fill in, the green pepper is receding, and the complexity continues to develop.
The trick is to open it the day before and let it breath.

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Permalink Reply by George Phiniotis on January 11, 2012 at 1:36pm

I believe Dave Avery is responsible for much of the distribution and planting of these varieties, I am not certain...but at one time he was the sole proprietor and distributor of these Blattner Varieties  and holds a license for the distribution of Valentine Blattner's genetic materials. My only concern presented with these varieties is that as the salesman Dave gains from their distribution in a direct monetary fashion, so I have been reluctant to get involved with any strain that doesn't have a good track record (or any at all) in my grape-growing region. It takes a lifetime to develop and prove grape varieties so I urge everyone to respect the patents as they represent a man's life long dedicated work and research. I believe they are currently in demand in grape growing regions that have cooler, wetter climates than the interior. I believe we will never see the full potential of any variety characteristically represented well in sub-standard growing regions. I remember years ago when growers were sued to the point of bankruptcy for not paying the annual returns on the genetically patented "Bing" cherry. Opening a bottle the day before to breath is not something I have done...why not simply decant it or use a wine aerator device...this should remove the detectable presence of any reductive odours, especially in the case of screw cap reds. That's my 2 cents for what it's worth...the boutique wineries have time to experiment with these, but we do 250 tons a year, so I haven't had the time to play with them.

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