Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Paul Troop on January 11, 2012 at 1:54pm

The distribution and licensing for the Blattner varieties is held by Blattner Vine Research Ltd., not David Avery or any of his companies. The Avery's have been operating under an agent with Blattner Vine Research in their propagation and sales of the Blattner vines. 

The majority of Blattner varieties have been propagated and distributed by Omega Vines Ltd., my company, from Salt Spring Island BC. 

Yes, there is monetary advantage in distribution of vines, but no, it is not more than any other supplier of any other variety of grapes. 

The Blattner varieties represent almost 30 years of breeding work by Valentin Blattner from Switzerland. To date, they have been well received in the coastal regions, but there are many Blattner selections that are marginally too late to be grown on the coast and would likely do well in the Okanagan or other warmer locations - should anyone be interested in partnering to do trials on that, please be in touch with me. 

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Permalink Reply by George Phiniotis on January 11, 2012 at 1:58pm

Yes Paul I am well aware of the facts of these varieties...I remember discussing them with David, yourself, and Valentine Blattner at River's bend years ago...my opinion remains unchanged, I was just trying to show some diplomacy and respect... I doubt we will see the day when 10,000 cases of blattner reds go out our door the way our Gamay does.

Paul Troop said:

Actually, the Avery's are not the sole proprietor or distributor, nor does they hold a license for the distribution of the Blattner varieties. That distribution and licensing is held by Blattner Vine Research Ltd. David Avery has operated as an agent of Blattner Vine Research. 

The majority of Blattner varieties have been propagated and distributed by Omega Vines Ltd., my company, from Salt Spring Island BC. 

Yes, there is monetary advantage in distribution of vines, but no, it is not more than any other supplier of any other variety of grapes. 

The Blattner varieties represent almost 30 years of breeding work by Valentin Blattner from Switzerland. To date, they have been well received in the coastal regions, but there are many Blattner selections that are marginally too late to be grown on the coast and would likely do well in the Okanagan or other warmer locations - should anyone be interested in partnering to do trials on that, please be in touch with me. 

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Permalink Reply by Paul Troop on January 11, 2012 at 2:45pm

George, 

I think you're right about new varieties not catching on quickly.It is certain that wineries are in business to sell wine and that new varieties represent, at best, a niche sales segment - something of interest but not going to outsell Pinot Noir. It seems obvious to me that wineries need to make wine that pays the bills, and for now that will likely be with varieties that do best in their vineyards - in your case I suppose that is Gamay.

Back to the philosophy though. My interest in this is two fold, firstly in the vineyard and then in the winery. As a grape grower, I was tired of the endless spraying of vinifera grapes, especially when the Foch in the same vineyards needed hardly any.  I reckoned that if there was one variety that required little spray there must be others. Enter Blattner. Not all his varieties are sufficiently resistant to powdery mildew or botrytis to go with no sprays, but some are and others might only require one or two sprays a season. This is what I was looking for. Now, we have to learn how to coax the best wines possible from these grapes, that is something which will also take some time to learn but is of tremendous interest.

I appreciate the position of the wineries, and your comments. Some wineries on the Islands, in Nova Scotia, Ontario, Germany and Switzerland are embracing these innovations. In time there will be a trend to growing vines requiring less inputs - and wineries will find ways to market the new wines. 

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Permalink Reply by George Phiniotis on January 11, 2012 at 3:03pm

I appreciate your comments Paul and hope I haven't offended you as this was not my intention...if you find any of my comments damaging to your cause I would glady remove them. you can email me at bcgrapes@gmail.com if you wish. And I commend your efforts on striving valiantly in a difficult situation I do not envy.

Kind Regards

George Phiniotis

Winemaker

Desert Hills Winery

Paul Troop said:

George, 

I think you're right about new varieties not catching on quickly.It is certain that wineries are in business to sell wine and that new varieties represent, at best, a niche sales segment - something of interest but not going to outsell Pinot Noir. It seems obvious to me that wineries need to make wine that pays the bills, and for now that will likely be with varieties that do best in their vineyards - in your case I suppose that is Gamay.

Back to the philosophy though. My interest in this is two fold, firstly in the vineyard and then in the winery. As a grape grower, I was tired of the endless spraying of vinifera grapes, especially when the Foch in the same vineyards needed hardly any.  I reckoned that if there was one variety that required little spray there must be others. Enter Blattner. Not all his varieties are sufficiently resistant to powdery mildew or botrytis to go with no sprays, but some are and others might only require one or two sprays a season. This is what I was looking for. Now, we have to learn how to coax the best wines possible from these grapes, that is something which will also take some time to learn but is of tremendous interest.

I appreciate the position of the wineries, and your comments. Some wineries on the Islands, in Nova Scotia, Ontario, Germany and Switzerland are embracing these innovations. In time there will be a trend to growing vines requiring less inputs - and wineries will find ways to market the new wines. 

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Permalink Reply by Paul Troop on January 11, 2012 at 3:07pm

I'm curious where you got the information regarding the Lotusland wine release.

The first Canadian release of Blattner wines I know of was from Alderlea Vineyards in Duncan in 2005 under the name Fusion, since renamed Matrix. Salt Spring Vineyards released their first Blattner red blend in 2006 and won the top Hybrid wine award in the 2010 All Canadians for their 2009 Blattner White blend - Petite Milo and Epicure varieties. I believe others have also released Blattner wines, red and whites, single varietals and blends,  including Mt Lehman in Abbotsford, as well as the Nova Scotia wineries: Jost, Gaspereau, Grande Pre, and Luckett. I think Viewpointe Estate Winery in Harrow Ontario has also released a 2009 blend from their HG series of Blattner varieties. 

On an international scale, Mr. Blattner himself has been releasing wines from his winery 'Valentin' since at least the 1990's. I'm aware of at least one German winery (Rummel) that released Blattner red blends going back to about 2000.

Sarah Bertin said:

David and Liz Avery of LOTUSLAND vineyards, Fraser Valley (organic & bio-dynamic) have just launched the first wine in the world using the 4 new Blattner disease resistant early maturing 'Cabernet' varietals. Spicey floral nose, nice berry and dried stone fruit front pallet, little soft yet mid pallet, long finish with soft tannins, easy drinking Bordeaux style wine with good acidity but without the biting tannins. As it is the first in the world I can't tell you how it will develop although it is 8 months, now 10 months, in the bottle and the mid pallet continues to fill in, the green pepper is receding, and the complexity continues to develop.
The trick is to open it the day before and let it breath.

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Permalink Reply by Paul Troop on January 11, 2012 at 3:16pm

George, 

No offense taken :-) 

One of the things I like about this forum is the ability for all in the community to have a voice. I do strive to keep the 'facts' straight about this project as I have invested much of the last 10 years of my life to it in one form or another and no one knows more about it in BC than I do. 

George Phiniotis said:

I appreciate your comments Paul and hope I haven't offended you as this was not my intention...if you find any of my comments damaging to your cause I would glady remove them. you can email me at bcgrapes@gmail.com if you wish. And I commend your efforts on striving valiantly in a difficult situation I do not envy.

Kind Regards

George Phiniotis

Winemaker

Desert Hills Winery

Paul Troop said:

George, 

I think you're right about new varieties not catching on quickly.It is certain that wineries are in business to sell wine and that new varieties represent, at best, a niche sales segment - something of interest but not going to outsell Pinot Noir. It seems obvious to me that wineries need to make wine that pays the bills, and for now that will likely be with varieties that do best in their vineyards - in your case I suppose that is Gamay.

Back to the philosophy though. My interest in this is two fold, firstly in the vineyard and then in the winery. As a grape grower, I was tired of the endless spraying of vinifera grapes, especially when the Foch in the same vineyards needed hardly any.  I reckoned that if there was one variety that required little spray there must be others. Enter Blattner. Not all his varieties are sufficiently resistant to powdery mildew or botrytis to go with no sprays, but some are and others might only require one or two sprays a season. This is what I was looking for. Now, we have to learn how to coax the best wines possible from these grapes, that is something which will also take some time to learn but is of tremendous interest.

I appreciate the position of the wineries, and your comments. Some wineries on the Islands, in Nova Scotia, Ontario, Germany and Switzerland are embracing these innovations. In time there will be a trend to growing vines requiring less inputs - and wineries will find ways to market the new wines. 

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Permalink Reply by Sarah Bertin on January 11, 2012 at 7:27pm

I received the information word for word from David Avery.  Coincidentally, I stumbled across the original posting asking who was growing Blattner varieties in BC and as a representative for LL, I was merely posting information which I believed helpful to the initial request.  Frankly, I have little knowledge otherwise but found the discussion interesting and helpful.

Cheers! ~sarah

Paul Troop said:

I'm curious where you got the information regarding the Lotusland wine release.

The first Canadian release of Blattner wines I know of was from Alderlea Vineyards in Duncan in 2005 under the name Fusion, since renamed Matrix. Salt Spring Vineyards released their first Blattner red blend in 2006 and won the top Hybrid wine award in the 2010 All Canadians for their 2009 Blattner White blend - Petite Milo and Epicure varieties. I believe others have also released Blattner wines, red and whites, single varietals and blends,  including Mt Lehman in Abbotsford, as well as the Nova Scotia wineries: Jost, Gaspereau, Grande Pre, and Luckett. I think Viewpointe Estate Winery in Harrow Ontario has also released a 2009 blend from their HG series of Blattner varieties. 

On an international scale, Mr. Blattner himself has been releasing wines from his winery 'Valentin' since at least the 1990's. I'm aware of at least one German winery (Rummel) that released Blattner red blends going back to about 2000.

Sarah Bertin said:

David and Liz Avery of LOTUSLAND vineyards, Fraser Valley (organic & bio-dynamic) have just launched the first wine in the world using the 4 new Blattner disease resistant early maturing 'Cabernet' varietals. Spicey floral nose, nice berry and dried stone fruit front pallet, little soft yet mid pallet, long finish with soft tannins, easy drinking Bordeaux style wine with good acidity but without the biting tannins. As it is the first in the world I can't tell you how it will develop although it is 8 months, now 10 months, in the bottle and the mid pallet continues to fill in, the green pepper is receding, and the complexity continues to develop.
The trick is to open it the day before and let it breath.

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Permalink Reply by Roblin Cronkhite on February 29, 2012 at 8:19am

There seems to be a lot of opinion regarding Blattner varieties. What I'm gathering from the info out there and from real vineyard trials is it's a good variety for the coast. The proof's always in the tasting of the pudding, so I'll need to do some vineyard walk throughs and taste trials to determine levels of success. I realize it's not Pinot or vinifera and interpretations are always highly subjective but, I'm still excited. So wineries, expect me to visit this summer. Looking forward it.

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Permalink Reply by Paul Troop on February 29, 2012 at 8:51am

Frankly, there are more of the Blattner varieties that are suited to warmer sites than those suited to cooler places like the coast.  It would be interesting if some research minded independent growers in the Okanagan were willing to take on the trials - contact me. 

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Permalink Reply by Roblin Cronkhite on March 29, 2012 at 11:23pm

I will inquire if any new vineyards we are building this spring want to plant some test rows. If you would want to supply the vines, I'm sure we can arrange this.

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